This last year may have been the worst one of my life, but at least I've got the world's two greatest dogs by my side to help me stagger into 2018. Today's post features a letter to Half Pint. Benjamin will be getting a letter later this week--he'd never let me hear the end of it, otherwise. Also, this posts features a lot of short video clips of Half Pint being silly. Since I apparently can't do anything right these days, they are exclusively shot in vertical mode. Please accept my apologies (and cut me some friggin' slack).
Stop taking the Westboro Baptist Church so seriously...they don't.
The Westboro Baptist Church has long been synonymous with every form of evil, malice, and disdain that we can possibly come up with. It is so bad, in fact, that even the Klu Klux Klan thinks that they go too far. This probably has to do with the fact that they often stage protests in which they declare that God hates just about everybody (except them), especially the gay community.
Their church website, www.godhatesfags.com, can clue you into their beliefs a little bit more if you were still unsure (when it's not shut down due to various cyber attacks). They even provide a handy schedule of their hateful protests so that you can meet them there and scream your head off.
Recently when Apple co-founder Steve Jobs passed away due to cancer, the Westboro baptist church sprang into action. Margie Phelps, who is the daughter of the the church's founder Fred Phelps, posted this little gem on her twitter account.
As you can imagine, plenty of people were kind enough to point out this ironic failure on the part of Mrs. Phelps. She responded by saying that God created the iPhone to tell the world that Steve Jobs was in hell. Shirley Phelps-Roper, another one of Fred's children responded:
"Steve Jobs did NOT create anything-God used Steve Jobs to create amazing STUFF for WBC to preach like a mug! Jobs vainly imagined HE did it!"
At this point, I became very frustrated and a little bit disappointed. I have followed the WBC for a long time with a certain morbid curiosity. While I detest their celebration of dead US soldiers and their racist/homophobic hate speech, I have to admit to being at least a little bit impressed by their legal acumen and their amazing ability to self promote. That's why this clear and totally avoidable blunder by the Phelps family was so surprising to me.
The only other time that I can recall something like this happening was when a radio show and it's callers dared to question why it was alright for Shirley Phelps-Roper to have sex (and bear a child) out of wedlock while others would burn in hell for their sins (skip to 16:00 to hear Shirley Phelps-Roper get burned).
How could people that are usually so on top of things about free speech litigation and self promotion make such a huge gaffe? Could it be that occasional instances of hypocrisy were inevitable with so much widespread condemnation?
...or maybe the people from the WBC weren't as ardently inhuman and hateful as they portray themselves to be. It was at this point that while browsing reddit, I came across a video of Westboro Baptist Church protesting a Justin Bieber concert.
In the video below, Shirley Phelps is being interviewed by Scoops, an openly gay DJ from the same area as the WBC. While you would figure that this combination of people would escalate into an explosion of vitriol and screaming, it was actually...really sweet. He talks about how the Phelps' have had him over to dinner, danced and sang to Lady Gaga songs with him, and how they worked on signs to picket him TOGETHER. Shirley affirms all of this, says that their church doesn't hate anybody (they are just "preaching the word") and dang it if she doesn't actually seem...human. Don't believe me? Take a look:
Later, at a WBC protest for Lady Gaga, Scoops shows up (dressed in drag) while they are singing a "remixed" version of 'Poker Face'. This time, he is greeted warmly and dances and sings along with Megan Phelps. I'm pretty sure he even gives Shirley Phelps-Roper a kiss on the cheek.
.
So maybe this is an aberration or a made up stunt. Maybe Scoops never was inside their home...
...except that he totally was. This video shows Scoops having Easter dinner with the Phelps family as Shirley brags about how great her cooking is. She is still discussing her outlandish beliefs and protest plans, but she does it all with a casual air that most families would love to have at their own holiday feasts.
The piece de resistance, however, is when the oddly attractive Megan Phelps has Scoops come over with a camera (and decently good production values) to take an MTV Cribs style tour of the Phelps home.
The Phelps family takes Scoops and the viewer on a tour of their "compound", which is in reality is a really sweet pad. There is a great entertainment room set up, a massage chair, at least one pretty nice bedroom (with a SpongeBob SquarePants pillow, which for some reason makes me giggle uncontrollably), and of course, their extensive selection of signs.
Perhaps the most surreal parts of the video are when Scoops plays at their piano while sporting his very own 'God Hates Fags' merch and when a large number of the younger Phelps children are playing 'Just Dance' on the Wii while Shirley Phelps-Roper cheers them on.
I guess you can't really fault them too much for their taste in music. This is the same group that put out an AMAZING parody of Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody.' The fact that kids were all dancing to Survivor's 'Eye of the Tiger' at least gives me hope that no matter what type of messed up values and morals those kids end up having, they will at least be fans of good rock and roll. It's also good to see that they are active and not just sitting on the couch when they play video games.
Feel the burn...OF ETERNAL DAMNATION!
So why would the Phelps family let an openly gay man come into their home and film them? According to Shirley Phelps-Roper, it's simply "'cause he asked to come over." But the Phelps family treating one gay man (that admittedly can provide them with a lot of publicity) isn't the only thing that I found odd about how they conducted themselves.
Members of the church have claimed that even if they believed that their actions were not dictated by God, they would still do and enjoy them anyway. They make countless parodies of classic and current pop/rock songs that are actually really well done from a production stand point. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I have totally been jamming to their 'Poker Face' remix while writing this.) In the film 'Fall from Grace', a 2007 documentary about the Phelps Family, Fred Phelps (who preaches against all types of idolatry, including to the American flag and individual universities) is interviewed almost the entire time while wearing a University of Kansas Jayhawk warm up suit.
Rock! Chalk! Jayhawk! Go KU...STRAIGHT TO HELL!
Could it be that these people are really just a family of like minded exhibitionists, looking for ways to push the 1st amendment as far as it can be stretched? If you don't believe that groups like this exists, then you clearly have not spend much time on the internet. People are always saying unthinkably awful and destructive things under the cover of anonymity; maybe the WBC is a real world version of an internet troll.
They probably do hold onto the basic seed of many of their racist and hateful beliefs, but the outlandish condemnation, promotion, and even their entire lifestyle seems like more of product of an insular environment and a desire to be noticed...and strangely, to have (what they seem to consider) fun.
So the next time you hear of the WBC protesting a funeral, concert, school, or religious institution, don't give them what they want by countering their hate with your own. Test their limits the real way; offer them a warm handshake and maybe even something to eat or drink. As hard as it may be to find, compliment them on something like their shoes or the way they are wearing their hair. If you live anywhere near the WBC, ask to come over and bring banana bread with you.
The Westboro Baptist Church has shown that they can give and receive hate better than any group around. Now maybe it's time to take a page out of Scoop's book and see what happens when you show them a little kindness. If they can show kindness to an openly gay man to the the point of having him over for dinner and considering him a good friend, there's no telling how far their limits of human empathy can be pushed. Who knows...you may make some very interesting new friends.
This only means that he doesn't give a shit what emotional suffering they cause others.
Anonymous said…
Or that others should learn that they may not be 100% serious and therefore stop having their feelings hurt a little.
Anonymous said…
When I first read about these people, my initial reaction was that I was filled with anger. But now, it's more sympathetic. Think about it. These people are universally hated and have to live secluded away from the rest of society and most people want them dead. Can you imagine the loneliness that these people must feel? The desolation. From what I can see from Scoops' videos, these people are starved for friends outside their 'church'. I still do get an urge to punch most of them in the face, but at the end of the day, I'm not universally hated and am a pretty happy person... I can't imagine these people are very happy on the inside.
The problem with this analysis is that it fails to take into account the various interviews with the members of the Phelps family that have been exiled from the clan. I remember hearing an interview with one of Fred's sons who is a cab driver in Seattle(?). He talked about the consistent and constant beatings the children received, etc. Although Margie may be more lighthearted in her discussions and the Phelps are still human at the core, they are a group filled with hate and are more than just "trolls."
http://www.towleroad.com/2010/04/nate-phelps.html
Anonymous said…
While yes, I view them as actual humans after reading this, I still cannot erase from my mind all of the interviews I've seen with Shriley Phelps Roper. There was one, actually, where she spoke with an Anonymous (worldwide hacktivist group, if y'all don't know) rep. He was very nice to her, very kind (if not a little indignant), and very professional. She attacked him, she told him that he was going to Hell, etc.
Think about it for a second. If even the KKK hate them, you KNOW that they're doing something deplorable. Even with all of the videos I've seen involving the KKK, the ones I've seen about the WBC have been ten times worse.
Yes, they are people. Yes, I feel slightly bad for them, after reading this. But nothing and no one can ever erase from my mind, and the minds of the people around the world, what they have said and done.
Anonymous said…
It's really hard to think they've been trolling this whole time. That is some dedicated trolling if it's real.
Anonymous said…
Nice of you to treat their protest of funerals as no big deal, putting it on par with protesting a concert. No matter how "nice" they might be or how much they might be real life trolls, they make the grieving process for people (that often have nothing to do with any cause) that much harder.
Maybe other people have a greater capacity for forgiveness than I, but I find that inexcusable and despicable.
Anonymous said…
Speaking of FAIL...."BARE a child"????? Proofreader on vacation?
You know if you do a little research, you will find Adolf Hitler to be regarded by his friends and personal acquaintances as a very friendly charismatic gentlemen.
But I don't think we need any new article promoting that concept, just like we don't need this article.
That would be ideal, but it will never happen. When they came to my home town, I was surprised how many people went to counter protest what ended up being a few idiots with picket signs.
I'm not sure where in my article I said that their protesting of funerals wasn't a big deal. It's some pretty disgusting behavior...but the sooner this group stocks getting taken seriously, the sooner they disappear.
RTR said…
Did they "act" like they beat Nate Phelps every day until he escaped in the middle of the night on his 18th birthday? Your definition of "act" is indistinguishable from the "real thing", especially to the family members of fallen soldiers and dead teens. That DJ should be ashamed of himself, and so should you.
Besides my poor grammar and lame attempts at humor, I'm not sure what I should be ashamed of. All I did was present information about them that was unknown to most (and runs counter to what the group presents) and give another way to throw them off besides counter protests and negative attention, which they thrive on.
Anonymous said…
can't believe you'd show sympathy for these garbage people.
if i were to see these people IRL it wouldnt end peacefully...
Where exactly did I saw they should be shown sympathy? What you are suggesting (negative attention and possible violence) is giving them exactly what they want.
Anonymous said…
Vocal fringe beliefs = media attention = fame(infamy) = success! Hatespeach = provocation = occasional assualts = litigation = profit = success! Its better than working a 9-5! More time to enjoy jayhawks, making cover songs, and video games. If they are ignored they will have to get real jobs and be productive members of society, like becoming personal injury lawyers. Hahaha
Anonymous said…
You have to talk about it...
Anonymous said…
Aesop's gay frog found his scorpion.
Anonymous said…
Oh yeah, just because they cause MORE heartache at people's FUNERALS, that is no reason to believe they are not nice people?? Are you friggin kidding me???!!! I think the writer needs to imagine if HIS son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father died.....and some boneheads came to show up at their funeral, would it make you feel better afterwards to find out that "well they are kinda nice people"??? You sir, need to get a grip and OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! Talk about lacking in EMPATHY
You should be ashamed of grooving to their music, giggling at their decor and basically acting like they're normal people who it might be possible to be friends with. And yes, everything in your post suggests that you feel they are harmless trolls putting on an act for attention, even if you didn't specifically use the word and seem to be backtracking quite a bit now. I still don't understand your definition of "an act". If go up to someone and calling them a fucking faggot and scream in their face, and then say "just kidding, I'm a troll looking for attention" how does that mitigate or negate the first thing? I think you *really* need to read Nate Phelp's firsthand account of the hell he suffered at the hands of these "trolls" before you push play on your HIGH-larious "Lady Gaga Remix" download again.
Anonymous said…
When someone says "Hello" to you in the grocery store, do you think they deserve respect and love even though they go home and beat their spouse?
How am i backtracking? I am simply asking you (for the second time now) to show me where I said they were harmless. I did say something about detesting their racist/homophobic hate speech and funeral pickets, though :)
1. Typing in all caps after saying "get a grip" is funny :) 2. I'm starting to think the negative folks on here didn't read the article...like where I talked about how horrible it is that they picket funerals.
This group thrives and feeds on publicity and hate. Try ignoring them or forcing them to reciprocate civility towards you and it will starve them to death.
Detesting their hate speech while rocking out to their groovy songs, eh? All righty.
Anonymous said…
"Nick NafpliotisMar 26, 2012 12:21 PM 1. Typing in all caps after saying "get a grip" is funny :) 2. I'm starting to think the negative folks on here didn't read the article...like where I talked about how horrible it is that they picket funerals."
Nick, #1 All your half-assed attempts at comedic, snarky replies only make you sound like a 12 year old.
#2 We did read that you talked about how horrible it was that they picketed funerals, and then you went on to write a whole article about how they really aren't so bad after all. Just misunderstood, right? Well UNDERSTAND this; people who use other people's grief for their own selfish purposes are the worst kind of human garbage there is.
Have you never lost anyone close to you? Do you not know the unfathomable pain of grief? If you did, you would understand where "our" unforgiving hatred comes from. As far as I am concerned, that whole group belongs in jail.
Of all the people and groups on Earth you could have written an article about, this is who you pick? You should be ashamed, man up, and admit it was a bad idea.....or become an attention whore and joing the WBC.
I think the problem is that as the 'face' of bigotry right now they are so over the top, so close to being caricatures that they take over the spotlight in this arena. What that does is it makes all the subtle bigotry we see every day in society seem more acceptable. And for the life of me, aside from the publicity, I can't imagine any justifiable reason for this DJ to want to engage with these people at all. It is disingenuous and disconcerting to me considering many of the vile and hateful things they have done.
Anonymous said…
Nick "This group thrives and feeds on publicity and hate. Try ignoring them or forcing them to reciprocate civility towards you and it will starve them to death."
Forgot to add, who wrote this article? Who is giving them publicity? How is it that you are "starving" them to death? Remind me how you are ignoring them?
Can't have it both ways my friend, you can't write an entire article about someone and then advise people to ignore them. Or is it just backpedaling?? hmmmmmmm
So every single musician, actor, author, television station, production company, etc that you enjoy has never participated in or supported any form of hate speech.
1. Your hate speech against 12 year olds is deplorable, good sir. And besides, I would hope that most 12 year olds aspire to be a better writer than I am :)
2. It wasn't a bad idea at all to write about them. Out of over 100 articles I've written, one exposes the WBC as a ridiculous fraud. I'd says my work here is done :)
1. I'd like to congratulate you on having one of the only intelligent dissenting opinions posted to day.
2. And in that regard, you make an excellent point. My only counter would be that the WBC also makes hatred and bigotry, particularly towards gay people, seem even more ridiculous and stupid that it already is.
It wasn't a bad idea at all to write about them. Out of over 100 articles I've written, one exposes the WBC as a ridiculous fraud. I'd says my work here is done...
...and thank you for keeping the discussion going :)
And as a Christian, I think it is pretty telling (and something that needs to be examined and fixed) when the WBC treats an openly gay man in their home better than most churches would.
Anonymous said…
My favorite comment from fark.com regarding your article:
depmode98 SmartestFunniest 2012-03-26 02:49:51 PM
I'm sure it will be a huge relief to this gay DJ when he's getting the shiat kicked out of him by a bigot inspired by the Phelps family, that the Phelps are in fact the nicest people you'd ever hope to meet.
By the way, just looked over your blog (which I must say as a film lover is fantastic--I hope you won't mind if I return), and I gotta ask: Are you aware how many films you gave good reviews to have actors and/or production companies involved in some pretty terrible hate speech and/or actions?
Anonymous said…
LOL Nick man dont listen to the haters you wrote an article on a touchy subject and now the internet hate machine which we all know is 10 ft tall and bullet proof attack you lol its laughable at best the reactions you are getting. Good article sir keep up the good work, i would not want to live in a world where people cannot write about what they want
Anonymous said…
My best friend's lover died a long horrendous death from AID's and it was one of the most painful things I have ever witnessed.
The whole "theme" of your article is that WBC might not be THAT bad after all...
Yet they would assert that God punished him for being gay, and specifically made him suffer.
This is not a huge problem for you right? This is something kind of cute and funny? From the tone of your article and the general feeling of your responses, it is not that big a deal, right?
If it was your significant other laying dying in the next room, maybe you would understand the why some of us are so offended by your seemingly lighthearted approach.
Vacationing at Auchwitz this summer? Can't wait to read your upbeat take on that.
Anonymous said…
Love how you all turned into WBC's on poor Nick, ever heard of freedom of speech....nick they are all douches ignore them write more its a great article. They all complain about how bad these people are but they hate on you just as bad. Bunch of hypoctrites. Up yours internet!
1. First of all Anonymous, I am very sorry about your friend. That is terrible.
2. Hate and bigotry is terrible...but the WBC, which is often seen as a some sort of unholy hellmouth source for it, is just a fraud. If you really think you are fighting hate and bigotry by taking them seriously, you are wasting your time.
3. Where in my article did I hate say hate and bigotry was "not a big deal." I said the WBC were a bunch of clowns, which is something you and I should be able to agree upon :)
Too bad the next thing I'm writing is about the time my mom and I didn't poop for almost two weeks when we visited Greece (no, I'm not kidding).
Anonymous said…
"3. I said the WBC were a bunch of clowns, which is something you and I should be able to agree upon :)"
And that is just what you are not getting - they are not silly little clowns - they are people who disrepected mothers burying their sons. They are people who are happy every time a soldier dies or a gay person dies because it gives them a chance to be in the spotlight. Don't buy into that neighborly routine, they would probably show up to protest at YOUR funeral if you died tomorrow. They would chant vile words as your friends and family drove by in the procession. Please do not dismiss them as clowns; they really HURT people!
Earl Wells said…
HAHAHA i want to read the poop story that must be epic.....ending is probally shitty tho :O
i'm writing this without reading previous comments due to time constraints, but the article just made my skin crawl. religious or otherwise, the most dangerous fanatics are scarily normal-seeming exactly because they so entirely believe that they are the only correct, and therefore 'normal' people. evil doesn't recognize itself, not in real life. no-one knows he's the bad guy, everyone believes himself to be the hero. so, are they allowed to live their own lives with the same freedoms as the rest of us? yes, necessarily. but these Westboros, whatever else they are, have hurt too many people to be taken as a goof or just the freaky folks next door. i don't care if they're 'real people'. they are a collective conduit and glorification of hate. and it's not ok.
I definitely see what you are saying, but their whole existence depends upon how seriously people take them. There are real groups out there doing real physical damage or lobbying/creating legislation against groups of people.
Hell, half the people in Congress don't think that homosexuals deserve the same rights as every other American. That's a much bigger and better fight to take on than a bunch of lunatics with picket signs that just want attention.
Anonymous said…
I always thought they were just in it for the money. I'm now a bit more certain I was right. They definitely have some screws lose but I think they're actually atheists and it's all just an act so they can sue people/get publicity and make money.
There are many old films that are racist/sexist/homophobic etc but they were more of a product of their times. You have to take that into context. Slavery was evil, but we don't consider Washington and Jefferson evil for owning slaves. However, if we found out Brad Pitt had a slave in his backyard, I wouldn't watch anymore Brad Pitt movies. Or in a more realistic context, I won't watch Polanski movies because he drugged and raped a young girl. But in this case, your rationale is even weirder: it's not like you're looking past WBC's hate speech and finding a way to appreciate their art regardless; their art itself is hate speech. I don't get that. You say they don't mean it, I say they most certainly do, but even if they don't, what's the difference to the people they hurt? Have you read Nate Phelp's story yet? They're not trolls. They're evil. I don't understand why someone would go to their home and break bread with them and I don't understand why someone would write a lighthearted blog post about them. But...uh...now it feels weird to yell at you, since you complimented by blog. So...thanks.
Anonymous said…
They choose to do his, unlike the people they persecute.
No problem at all--if your blog sucked it would have given me some great ad hominem fodder, but I actually really enjoyed.
I also agree with you on Polanski and feel the same way about Victor Salva (who Disney for some reason still felt okay hiring in the 90's).
I will definitely check out the Nate Phelps story, though I'm guessing that it will mostly focus on Fred Phelps, who there is no way to paint in a human light at all.
As far as why someone would break bread or write a blog post about them, a couple of things:
1. I probably did come across as light hearted, but i tend to do this with every subject I write about. It's not me dismissing the issue as much as it's my (very poor) attempt at adding humor to my writing.
2. The reason for trying the "kill them with kindness" approach is that it cuts off their steady supply of hate and aggression from opponents that they so enjoy getting.
Aside from the multiple lawsuits they have won, there is even a quote in my article where one of the girls talks about how much fun it is doing what they do.
Since counter protests and calling them evil isn't working (and in fact, emboldens them) and people can't seem to just ignore them, why not drive them nuts with unexpected kindness they would confusedly try to reciprocate instead? That will push their limits, stretch their ideals, and hurt their cause more than anything that has been done so far.
Took awhile too absorb this. Finally I've decided it makes me sad. It seems like they could have been friends in a parallel universe, but to me what they have now isn't a real friendship, just as close as they can do given that they hate what he is. It was also extraordinarily disturbing to see how normal all of this is to them. Thanks for the story, wouldn't have seen the videos otherwise, and to FARK for picking it up. Any updates after having read Nate's story?
Anonymous said…
Well I certainly see where you're coming from, though I don't believe that you say what you mean. Ignoring the WBC is the MOST serious thing most of us can do to them. If you want a fire to die, stop feeding it.
I find the comments here as interesting as the article. A passive approach seems so incredibly unthinkable to most people. Why is that, I wonder? Are we afraid that more people will join them if we don't scream our dissent? That is unlikely. They don't profess to like the rest of us, why would we join them? Or is it more simple than that? Are we just hurt and broken people who must lash back?
And the common idea that everyone's a hypocrite apparently only extends to love and kindness. I get it that not living up to their hateful ideals doesn't excuse the WBC, but then why does not living up to beautiful ideals so often condemn the rest of us? Meh, food for thought.
Anonymous said…
Upon further reflection it seems superfluous to have suggested that you weren't speaking straightforwardly. You are doubtlessly aware of your own communication style. Perhaps a more literal approach would garner less vitriol, but it probably wouldn't be reflective of your personality. Carry on!
Anonymous said…
I live in their home town, so I see them often. The first time was on the way to my youngest daughter's First Communion. It was a difficult moment explaining to her what these people were talking about.
Anyway, the point I would like to make is that there have been comparisons made to the KKK. I see a clear distinction in that the KKK hates certain people based on race; which is clearly not something that someone chooses. The Phelps message is that God hates gays.
If I were a gay black man I would rather hang out with the Phelpses...
Comments
http://www.towleroad.com/2010/04/nate-phelps.html
Think about it for a second. If even the KKK hate them, you KNOW that they're doing something deplorable. Even with all of the videos I've seen involving the KKK, the ones I've seen about the WBC have been ten times worse.
Yes, they are people. Yes, I feel slightly bad for them, after reading this. But nothing and no one can ever erase from my mind, and the minds of the people around the world, what they have said and done.
That is some dedicated trolling if it's real.
Maybe other people have a greater capacity for forgiveness than I, but I find that inexcusable and despicable.
But I don't think we need any new article promoting that concept, just like we don't need this article.
if i were to see these people IRL it wouldnt end peacefully...
Hatespeach = provocation = occasional assualts = litigation = profit = success!
Its better than working a 9-5! More time to enjoy jayhawks, making cover songs, and video games.
If they are ignored they will have to get real jobs and be productive members of society, like becoming personal injury lawyers. Hahaha
I think you *really* need to read Nate Phelp's firsthand account of the hell he suffered at the hands of these "trolls" before you push play on your HIGH-larious "Lady Gaga Remix" download again.
2. I'm starting to think the negative folks on here didn't read the article...like where I talked about how horrible it is that they picket funerals.
This group thrives and feeds on publicity and hate. Try ignoring them or forcing them to reciprocate civility towards you and it will starve them to death.
And no, forcing them to reciprocate kindness instead of giving them the hate they desperately crave is not the same :)
1. Typing in all caps after saying "get a grip" is funny :) 2. I'm starting to think the negative folks on here didn't read the article...like where I talked about how horrible it is that they picket funerals."
Nick, #1 All your half-assed attempts at comedic, snarky replies only make you sound like a 12 year old.
#2 We did read that you talked about how horrible it was that they picketed funerals, and then you went on to write a whole article about how they really aren't so bad after all. Just misunderstood, right? Well UNDERSTAND this; people who use other people's grief for their own selfish purposes are the worst kind of human garbage there is.
Have you never lost anyone close to you? Do you not know the unfathomable pain of grief? If you did, you would understand where "our" unforgiving hatred comes from. As far as I am concerned, that whole group belongs in jail.
Of all the people and groups on Earth you could have written an article about, this is who you pick? You should be ashamed, man up, and admit it was a bad idea.....or become an attention whore and joing the WBC.
Forgot to add, who wrote this article? Who is giving them publicity? How is it that you are "starving" them to death? Remind me how you are ignoring them?
Can't have it both ways my friend, you can't write an entire article about someone and then advise people to ignore them. Or is it just backpedaling?? hmmmmmmm
All righty :)
2. It wasn't a bad idea at all to write about them. Out of over 100 articles I've written, one exposes the WBC as a ridiculous fraud. I'd says my work here is done :)
2. And in that regard, you make an excellent point. My only counter would be that the WBC also makes hatred and bigotry, particularly towards gay people, seem even more ridiculous and stupid that it already is.
...and thank you for keeping the discussion going :)
depmode98 SmartestFunniest 2012-03-26 02:49:51 PM
I'm sure it will be a huge relief to this gay DJ when he's getting the shiat kicked out of him by a bigot inspired by the Phelps family, that the Phelps are in fact the nicest people you'd ever hope to meet.
The whole "theme" of your article is that WBC might not be THAT bad after all...
Yet they would assert that God punished him for being gay, and specifically made him suffer.
This is not a huge problem for you right? This is something kind of cute and funny? From the tone of your article and the general feeling of your responses, it is not that big a deal, right?
If it was your significant other laying dying in the next room, maybe you would understand the why some of us are so offended by your seemingly lighthearted approach.
Vacationing at Auchwitz this summer? Can't wait to read your upbeat take on that.
2. Hate and bigotry is terrible...but the WBC, which is often seen as a some sort of unholy hellmouth source for it, is just a fraud. If you really think you are fighting hate and bigotry by taking them seriously, you are wasting your time.
3. Where in my article did I hate say hate and bigotry was "not a big deal." I said the WBC were a bunch of clowns, which is something you and I should be able to agree upon :)
And that is just what you are not getting - they are not silly little clowns - they are people who disrepected mothers burying their sons. They are people who are happy every time a soldier dies or a gay person dies because it gives them a chance to be in the spotlight. Don't buy into that neighborly routine, they would probably show up to protest at YOUR funeral if you died tomorrow. They would chant vile words as your friends and family drove by in the procession. Please do not dismiss them as clowns; they really HURT people!
rainbowbutter SmartestFunniest 2012-03-26 05:06:41 PM
i'm writing this without reading previous comments due to time constraints, but the article just made my skin crawl. religious or otherwise, the most dangerous fanatics are scarily normal-seeming exactly because they so entirely believe that they are the only correct, and therefore 'normal' people. evil doesn't recognize itself, not in real life. no-one knows he's the bad guy, everyone believes himself to be the hero. so, are they allowed to live their own lives with the same freedoms as the rest of us? yes, necessarily. but these Westboros, whatever else they are, have hurt too many people to be taken as a goof or just the freaky folks next door. i don't care if they're 'real people'. they are a collective conduit and glorification of hate.
and it's not ok.
I definitely see what you are saying, but their whole existence depends upon how seriously people take them. There are real groups out there doing real physical damage or lobbying/creating legislation against groups of people.
Hell, half the people in Congress don't think that homosexuals deserve the same rights as every other American. That's a much bigger and better fight to take on than a bunch of lunatics with picket signs that just want attention.
But...uh...now it feels weird to yell at you, since you complimented by blog. So...thanks.
I also agree with you on Polanski and feel the same way about Victor Salva (who Disney for some reason still felt okay hiring in the 90's).
I will definitely check out the Nate Phelps story, though I'm guessing that it will mostly focus on Fred Phelps, who there is no way to paint in a human light at all.
As far as why someone would break bread or write a blog post about them, a couple of things:
1. I probably did come across as light hearted, but i tend to do this with every subject I write about. It's not me dismissing the issue as much as it's my (very poor) attempt at adding humor to my writing.
2. The reason for trying the "kill them with kindness" approach is that it cuts off their steady supply of hate and aggression from opponents that they so enjoy getting.
Aside from the multiple lawsuits they have won, there is even a quote in my article where one of the girls talks about how much fun it is doing what they do.
Since counter protests and calling them evil isn't working (and in fact, emboldens them) and people can't seem to just ignore them, why not drive them nuts with unexpected kindness they would confusedly try to reciprocate instead? That will push their limits, stretch their ideals, and hurt their cause more than anything that has been done so far.
Any updates after having read Nate's story?
I find the comments here as interesting as the article. A passive approach seems so incredibly unthinkable to most people. Why is that, I wonder? Are we afraid that more people will join them if we don't scream our dissent? That is unlikely. They don't profess to like the rest of us, why would we join them? Or is it more simple than that? Are we just hurt and broken people who must lash back?
And the common idea that everyone's a hypocrite apparently only extends to love and kindness. I get it that not living up to their hateful ideals doesn't excuse the WBC, but then why does not living up to beautiful ideals so often condemn the rest of us? Meh, food for thought.
Anyway, the point I would like to make is that there have been comparisons made to the KKK. I see a clear distinction in that the KKK hates certain people based on race; which is clearly not something that someone chooses. The Phelps message is that God hates gays.
If I were a gay black man I would rather hang out with the Phelpses...